Renovations of the Heart

Kayla: 00:05

Welcome to renovations of the heart, a renovation church podcast dedicated to bringing you stories and testimonies of God's amazing grace. Our hosts, Kayla Holbrook and Ken Grether.

Ken: 00:17

Hey, everybody. This is Ken Grether. I'm the discipleship and group coordinator, for Renovation Church, and I'm here with Kayla.

Kayla: 00:25

Hey. I'm Kayla. I'm the R Kids and Connections pastor here at the Simpsonville campus of Renovation Church.

Ken: 00:32

So as you may know or may have heard, we have started a podcast together.

Kayla: 00:37

We have.

Ken: 00:38

And our first podcast that we did, we really didn't know each other. So we thought we would do like this little pre intro to the first podcast since our first podcast really isn't going to be like the ones that precede it.

Kayla: 00:54

Yeah. Yeah. I liked when we were able to talk to some of our guests and really just kinda dig into their story and just how God moved through their lives. And then, with us, we were just kind of I mean, honestly, we didn't even know each other too well. We didn't even hear our testimonies of each other's.

Kayla: 01:11

We So just decided to sit down and interact live with it. And I thought it it was really good. So we wanted this just to kind of be a preview. It does change a little bit with episodes two and three that are already recorded, but really, really good stories and really cool moments. I know that we've made someone cry.

Kayla: 01:29

We have chills a couple times.

Ken: 01:32

And we have some guests lined up.

Kayla: 01:34

Mhmm.

Ken: 01:34

So, again, we're really excited about this. So it was kind of fun, though, the first time we sat down. Again, like Kayla said, we, you know, we're the newest on staff and we were just getting to know each other. And we literally sat down on the mic saying, I don't know how this is going to go.

Kayla: 01:49

Here we go.

Ken: 01:50

So we just both blurted, literally, I think blurted out our testimonies. Yeah. So, we thought we better give a little bit of a preview here. But Yeah. We certainly look forward to doing this.

Ken: 02:01

I think God has put this on both of our hearts.

Kayla: 02:04

For sure.

Ken: 02:05

I pray the Holy Spirit speaks through our guests and speaks through us, and and hopefully we can touch some hearts. And and I guess that's that's why we're doing this.

Kayla: 02:15

Yeah. Yeah. Forgive the nerves on the first episode that you're about to hear. We have settled in, And so I'm really excited about it, but we didn't wanna lose the authenticity of the first interactions that we kinda had.

Ken: 02:28

So here we go. Here we go. Episode one.

Kayla: 02:34

Welcome to Sharing God's Grace. This is Kayla, and I'm here with Ken, my little partner in crime. And we have started our podcast with the Renovation Church, and we're so excited.

Ken: 02:44

This is amazing. I can't believe we're actually sitting here. Again, my name is Ken Grether, and I could not be more excited to start this podcast, Kayla.

Kayla: 02:53

Same. So a little bit about ourselves. My name's Kayla, and I am the RKids pastor here. So I work with kids six years old all the way through fifth grade, and I do connections. So all the people that are wanting to serve get into serving at the church, they go through me.

Kayla: 03:09

And then I also head up the local missions.

Ken: 03:12

Fantastic. I am the discipleship and groups coordinator here at Renovation Church. I handle all the discipleship ministries, such as Our Classics, which is our 60 group. We have a singles ministry here, a management course that goes on. Maybe our most important ministry is our Rooted program, which I also get to oversee.

Ken: 03:35

I had the privilege of doing that. And now I guess we do podcasts too as Yeah.

Kayla: 03:41

Kind of the brainchild of how this started was in a staff meeting, oddly enough, And our goals for the year, and Ken was like, hey, I wanna do a podcast. And then at the end of staff meeting, come bursting in the door saying, hey, I'll do it with you. I mean, I guess, it's always kind of been one of those things put on the back burner for myself. And so, yeah, that is how we found each other and got this podcast started.

Ken: 04:07

Yeah. And God definitely was at work on that day because it had been on my heart to start a podcast with the church. Both of us have a little bit of experience doing this. And I had been thinking about it at the 2024. And when our lead pastor here, Jason Thompson, had that thing in staff and said, what should our goals let's name one goal that we have for 2025.

Ken: 04:31

It can be a personal goal. It can be a church goal. And I was the first one to go, and I just blurted out, I want to do a podcast. And sure enough, Kayla, after the staff meeting came in, I wanna do it with you. So, this is, this is actually very exciting, and we're looking forward to it.

Kayla: 04:50

Yeah. And just kind of the point of our podcast, it it comes from scripture, Acts four thirty three. It says, with great power, the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God's grace was so powerfully at work in them all. And what a a cool thing that we can learn from the early church that storytelling was such a powerful tool for them.

Kayla: 05:11

They didn't have everything written down, especially, you know, with the Gentiles. They didn't read, you know, the Torah or anything like that. And so they were able to just really minister to the people with their storytelling and just living life with them.

Ken: 05:25

Yep. Yep. Absolutely. You know, the podcast objective for this is really we want to hear people's faith stories and their testimonies. You know, they show God's incredible grace and love for us.

Ken: 05:38

It shines the light of Jesus for others to see in their own lives. Or, you know, maybe they know somebody that's going through something similar, some kind of similar circumstances. You know, faith stories and testimonies are powerful opportunity, I think, to share the gospel and to show others that they're not alone on this walk. But really as a church, how and where do we find these opportunities to do these testimonies and faith stories? You know, just to be heard on a regular basis, not necessarily at maybe a retreat or a sermon once in a while.

Ken: 06:09

Right. And Jeremy Havlind, our senior pastor

Kayla: 06:13

Yeah.

Ken: 06:13

Again, this was being, this podcast was being born, they talk about confirmation from God, so.

Kayla: 06:18

Yeah. Kind of our moment. We were in practicing the way study with the staff and he was like, you know, I miss hearing people's stories. We need to figure out a way to share people's stories and testimonies because they are such a powerful teaching tool and so Ken and I we just kind of made eye contact across the room. We're like this is it, this is confirmation definitely from the Lord that this is kind of the the new median to do it.

Kayla: 06:45

No more open mic nights at your, you know, your evening Sunday services. This is gonna be kind of how we're gonna share just our stories throughout the church and, our own stories as well, just kind of for those teaching moments.

Ken: 06:59

Sure. Yep. That's one of those moments, you know, sometimes God's word to us can be very subtle and quiet. Other times he can hit you right between the eyes and the forehead. Don't I know.

Ken: 07:08

That was that was certainly one of those moments. So here we are. Yeah. And we we look forward to bringing guests in

Kayla: 07:16

Yeah.

Ken: 07:17

On a regular basis, so we can hear different types of testimonies from different people, different ages and backgrounds and all of that, which and give them the opportunity to talk with us about what's on their heart too as well.

Kayla: 07:31

For sure. And Ken and I, our backgrounds are very, very different. He is new to, you know, being on church staff. I've been in the ministry for over ten years, and just kind of, our unique perspectives and our backgrounds, I think will lead to, good stories to to share.

Ken: 07:51

Yep. And, I really don't have any theology degrees hanging on the wall anywhere. I was baptized and found my faith again about ten years ago, and have been trying to listen to the Lord, and doing different ministries within the church, and then suddenly our lead pastor Jason Thompson came to me and said, you should really be on staff, I need somebody to do the discipleship and small groups, which is a gift that I have, think. So, we're trying to listen, and when God asks us to do something, I'm trying to do the best I can to take a step forward.

Kayla: 08:32

Exactly.

Ken: 08:33

Yeah.

Kayla: 08:33

Well, that's why storytelling is so powerful because we can look back at our own lives or other people's lives and just see how God was at work even through our ups and downs or even like me, I always say I have like a boring testimony, right? It's very stereotypical. So I guess I'll lead into mine. So I was saved at a Christian summer camp when I was 10. My good friend Courtney from down the street, she invited me and we were in Wichita, Kansas at the time, well that's where the camp was.

Kayla: 09:03

And I just remember, I knew the Bible stories, I grew up in the Christian household, so I knew all the answers, right? And so, but there was just something special at that camp that I, you know, clearly, clearly remember just weeping. And I was an emotional child anyway, but there was something different about this that I really felt the Holy Spirit come over me. And I can't tell you what the camp pastor said or even my counselor said. I just remember she brought me back to the cabin and I just wept in her arms.

Kayla: 09:38

That was it. I was like, you know, this is this is God. This is that experience. And I mean not everyone has that dramatic of an experience, but for me I I feel like I'm such a black and white person that I kind of needed to kind of be smacked upside the head, right? Right.

Kayla: 09:54

Even as a 10 year old child. And so that was, kind of my start and I grew up in an army base and so my church life was going to be a little bit different. So we had chaplains and so each each week we had a different chaplain that kind of talked to us and so denominations were all over the place because it was just kind of who the chaplain on on call was for that that week. So from there, we moved to Pennsylvania when I was in high school and that is when I found Youth Group. I fell in love with it.

Kayla: 10:33

My small group leaders, Becca and Sally, I still am in contact with them today and they were able to really mold my young Christian life.

Ken: 10:42

Sure.

Kayla: 10:43

Because from then, you know, I got saved so young and so there wasn't like any crazy, you know, sins I had to overcome. Was just, you know, normal child stuff, but with growing up with my dad in the military, there was such, you know, kind of uneasiness and transition throughout my whole life that once we finally moved to Pennsylvania, dad, you know, he was going to retire. This is where my parents are going to set down roots. Really kind of helped me kind of reflect inwardly and kind of take a hold of my faith. Never really had the opportunity before that, but Becca and Sally, they really poured into us girls and to do that.

Kayla: 11:25

So from there, this is where kind of I entered into the ministry. So I was when I was, really little, we were Lutheran, and so I was baptized by Sprinkle

Ken: 11:37

Sure.

Kayla: 11:37

When I was a baby, and that is just what happened. Then, like I said, with the military, it just whoever is on call that week was kind of the theology that we were given. And so I really struggled with baptism and what that meant. Sure. Because the church I went to, it was immersion.

Kayla: 11:57

And I was like, Hey. I mean, I always said I was baptized. You know, I have this faith experience of when I accepted, the Lord into my heart. But, you know, I never had that chance to then tell everyone else, Hey, I'm a Christian. I'm a child of God.

Kayla: 12:15

This is what this means. And so when I was 17, I finally got dunked by my late uncle and he had this tiny little Baptist church up in Ohio, ended up getting married in that same church. It's no longer there and he has since passed. But it was a really special moment to kind of, you know, shout to the world, Hey, I am a Christian and this is where my life is going. So from there, I ended up at odd turn of events at Liberty University.

Kayla: 12:46

I did not want to go to a Christian college. I thought, oh, those are a bunch of hypocrites, yada yada yada. And then here I am at Liberty as a super, super young freshman. I was only 17 when I graduated.

Ken: 13:00

Wow.

Kayla: 13:00

Yeah. I was super, super young. And I was like, I'm gonna be in IT. This is what I've always done and all that. And then after freshman year, God was like, No, you're gonna go into the ministry.

Kayla: 13:14

And so that was a hard pill to swallow, think, probably for my family financially, wildly different fields, right? Yeah. Wildly. From IT to the ministry. And so, you know, from there, I struggled a lot with depression and anxiety, especially that my freshman year, Just being away, I was so, so young.

Kayla: 13:36

I was four hours from home. And that was when I was first diagnosed with clinical depression. And so, from there, I mean, is where my testimony shines is, you know, I struggled I still struggle with anxiety and depression for years now. And just God's able to deliver me time and time again. So I met my husband at a Christian summer camp.

Kayla: 14:00

That was kind of my intro into ministry and just walking alongside these, you know, these preteens and these kids and you know, what their faith is, how they can own their faith from a very young age. Know, I waited until I was almost into adulthood to really take ownership of that. But that's what brought me into this ministry. I have been a children's pastor for over ten years. It's just kind of, you know, my bread and butter.

Kayla: 14:26

This is what I do and I love it. But that doesn't mean that I don't still struggle, you know? When I had my first, I definitely had some postpartum anxiety and some depression. Sure. So that is something that I've learned to accept, that it's okay to ask for help.

Kayla: 14:43

And one of my favorite quotes is, Broken crayons still color.

Ken: 14:48

I love that.

Kayla: 14:48

And so even though I am such a broken person, right, with the anxiety and the depression and just kind of the mental health, God still used me and He's been using me for such a long time. So now being at renovation, really trying to see, you know, what ministry is, how it can be different, how it can be more effective to these kids. Because I don't want these kids to have church hurt, you know? I want them to love coming to church, and that is their safe place. And so that's kind of what called me.

Ken: 15:22

Right.

Kayla: 15:23

And so a little bit, you know, kind of quote unquote boring. But, yeah, so that's kind of my story.

Ken: 15:30

Wow. I will say this, and maybe a future podcast we can talk about this Rooted program I referred to. But one of the things that the people who go through that do is they do their testimonies. Yeah. And one of the things I have facilitated many of those and heard so many different testimonies is your testimony.

Ken: 15:53

Mhmm. And they're all different. But it's amazing to see in all the different types of testimonies how God works differently in those testimonies. Yeah. But God is working in all of those

Kayla: 16:07

different 100%. Testimonies. You know?

Ken: 16:09

I should also mention too, this is the first time Kayla and I have actually heard each other's testimony. Yeah. So we are live. I'm literally live receiving this. Yeah.

Ken: 16:19

Which is, from a selfish standpoint, kinda kinda fun. So Yeah. Yeah. I have a little bit of church hurt in my testimony.

Kayla: 16:28

100%. Yeah.

Ken: 16:29

And we only have so much time, so I'm gonna try to give the Reader's Digest version I of think earlier I had mentioned that I had gotten baptized ten years ago. I'll be 65 in July, so I came back to my faith at an older age. I grew up in the Chicagoland area. My father grew up Catholic, was an altar boy. Yeah.

Ken: 16:58

I grew up Catholic. What I know well, let me first say this. And about three years ago, God literally spoke to me when I went by a billboard that had Catholic charities up there that He literally told me, be careful. Do not make fun of Catholics. And so I'm going to tread lightly here.

Ken: 17:20

This is my story. I think it will relate to a lot of people. But what I knew of the Catholic church was my uncles and my dad telling all the stories about they went to Catholic school, about the nuns hitting them with their rulers, and what they would do as altar boys, and how they would mark up the the stuff with like the stick this is going to date me here where you could make the stick people movies with the hymnals and stuff like that. And it was always something funny that was going on. And my Bible knowledge was nothing.

Ken: 17:58

We got the, what I would call at this point, the kindergarten stories, Bible stories in our catechism. I did make First Communion, which meant I had to go through the harrowing experience of giving my first confessional, which was literally a bunch of us in line, the three confessional boxes. We knew which box the mean priest was in. So we're all terrified Just trying chase. Everybody was, like, counting numbers and, like, oh, Johnny's in this one.

Ken: 18:27

Hurry up because if he goes, then I go. And it was terrible just so we could go in there and confess our sins, which was pretty much, you know, saying a bad word or talking back to mom or took a piece of candy from the seven Eleven or something along But those it was terrifying nonetheless kind of thing. So anyways, I was raised Catholic. About the time I was in high school, my parents, we moved, and we moved away from that church. And for whatever reason, my parents stopped going.

Ken: 18:55

I had no real reason to go at that point. So I sort of lost contact with the church. When I went away to college, I was dating my high school sweetheart, who was very, very Catholic. And we had talked about that four years while I was in college that we were planning on getting married, which we did. I never made my confirmation within the Catholic church, which was a requirement back then in order to get married.

Ken: 19:27

And so I didn't care. I didn't know much about it. I'm just being honest here. Didn't know much about the Catholic church. I knew all the rules, when to stand, when to sit, when to do the cross and the arch, what the order of the Catholic mass was.

Ken: 19:43

And the bigger the hat, the higher ranking the person was in the Catholic church sort of thing. And that's really all I knew about it. But I wanted to marry my wife, who was very, very Catholic. And if she was Methodist, I would have been Methodist. If she was Lutheran, Baptist, it didn't matter.

Ken: 20:00

I just wanted to marry her. And so I told the priest that, oh, I was definitely Catholic, and I was definitely going to make my confirmation when I was an adult, which I did eighteen years later when our marriage was in trouble. Sure. But so that was it. And I and I was not there was I started seeing you had mentioned the hypocrisy, and I started to see that a little bit in the church too as well.

Ken: 20:27

I golf with a couple of people. I know what they're talking about on the golf course. But the important thing was you saw them in Sunday Mass, and that didn't sit Exactly. And I was bored. I didn't know anything about it.

Ken: 20:38

This is the worst thing, and it's probably the hardest thing. I'll try not to get emotional during this part. I was not a really I had a hard time the kids. I was just you know, I have a son, and I have a daughter. Mhmm.

Ken: 20:53

They are 37 and 36 now. I just was not a very good example. I was not very good when I was in church. A lot of times I didn't want to go to church. I would substitute a tea time if I could.

Ken: 21:05

And so I did that. And to this day, and we'll talk a little bit about that here in the future, that was my Catholic experience. I Yeah. From talking to a lot of post Catholic people, that's a lot of people's Catholic. I believe there's a lot of Christians within the Catholic, you know, church and that sort of Sure, yeah.

Ken: 21:24

It was just we had no relationship with God. I had no Bible knowledge, and I don't even know if there was Bible classes being taught, that sort of thing. So that was that, and I'll do this real quick. My wife had a lot of health problems, and because of those health problems we don't have enough time to talk about this but because of multiple surgeries and things like that, she became addicted to prescription drugs

Kayla: 21:50

Oh, wow.

Ken: 21:51

Which led to marriage issues and stuff with the kids and that sort of thing. So unfortunately, we did divorce in the year February. And that was really hard, hard on the kids. The kids were in their They were early in their early Yeah, they were in their early teens at the time. And so we had to get through that.

Ken: 22:14

Then because, again, the Catholic Church, once you're married in the Catholic Church, you will always be married in the face of God, right? And that really bothered my ex wife. And so she applied for an annulment. I knew that that was really important to her. And so I spent two hours in St.

Ken: 22:34

Paul, Minnesota, diocese talking into a recorder and answering questions. And the bottom line was I really when we got married, you know, the background was I really wasn't a Catholic, and I had no intention of being a Catholic, and I didn't care about being a Catholic.

Kayla: 22:53

Yeah, it was just

Ken: 22:54

like a checkbox. Was. And I said that out loud. There really wasn't infidelity in the marriage. There were probably improper relationships, but nothing like that.

Ken: 23:03

So I fell on the sword because I knew it was and my marriage was annulled, which really hit hard. I got a letter Wow. Saying from the Catholic Church saying, Your marriage is annulled. That was the first paragraph. The second paragraph said, Although all the responsibility of whatever child support and all that, this does not affect that in any way.

Kayla: 23:21

Oh, interesting.

Ken: 23:21

You know, which I thought was interesting. I was like, Oh, darn. Just kidding there. So that's when things really went off the rails. That's when I was like, this is just ridiculous.

Ken: 23:32

I believe in God. I don't believe in religion. Religion failed me. I'm just going to go down. Proverbs has lots of things about going And down the right if you get off the right path, where that right path leads or that wrong path leads, it doesn't lead to a good place.

Kayla: 23:50

Sure doesn't.

Ken: 23:51

I got off the path. Let's just say that. I met a woman two years later. We lived together for fourteen years. I was living in Minnesota.

Kayla: 23:59

If

Ken: 24:01

you are from the Upper Midwest, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, those areas, drinking is cultural thing. And I'm not talking from an alcoholic standpoint, not the disease. I'm talking about a cultural thing where no matter what you do up there, some form of drinking is involved. Okay. I took that up full heartedly along with the woman that I was with.

Ken: 24:24

We raised two kids together. She was a single mom. That lasted for about fourteen years before I found out she was cheating on me. Oh, wow. And so that was exactly when you get off that path and There you was no faith in our household whatsoever, just trying to be the good guy and do the right thing and raise a second set of kids and all of that sort of thing.

Ken: 24:49

It's funny because both that ex and I are both saved now. She is, too, as well.

Kayla: 24:54

Oh, nice. Yeah.

Ken: 24:55

Which is a total side story.

Kayla: 24:57

Right.

Ken: 24:57

Which is a lot of fun years later. But so this would have been December 2014. I had gained a bunch of weight. I was living in a one bedroom condo in Chaska, Minnesota. Again, all this happened November, December.

Ken: 25:14

And I remember the January, it was literally minus 10. Gosh. I remember like this was yesterday. So this would have been ten years ago.

Kayla: 25:21

Right.

Ken: 25:23

It's freezing cold. I left work, stopped at my local pub to get dinner, had a couple of beers, went back, ordered a pepperoni pizza.

Kayla: 25:33

Okay.

Ken: 25:34

And I had a bottle of Crown Royal. I drank ate the whole pizza, half a bottle of the Crown Royal, lying on the couch, well over 300

Kayla: 25:44

Yeah.

Ken: 25:44

Saying, what am I doing with my life? And at that very moment, that very moment, I said, God, I believe in You. Yeah. I don't know how to communicate to You. I don't know anything about You.

Ken: 25:57

But if you're there, I need your help now.

Kayla: 26:00

Mhmm.

Ken: 26:01

Two weeks later, in a crazy story, I literally meet who is now my wife.

Kayla: 26:07

Okay.

Ken: 26:08

Two and and, again, we don't have enough time. It's another it's a great story. Nice. How I met my wife, and it is a 100% God thing. And some other things at that time were happening as well, but that was the main thing.

Ken: 26:22

And my wife, Barbara, yes, I am married to a Barbara, Ken and Barbie, if you hadn't made

Kayla: 26:26

that It's my favorite.

Ken: 26:28

Yes, it's Ken and Barbie. It took fifty five years to find my Barbie.

Kayla: 26:33

You found your Barbie.

Ken: 26:34

I found my Barbie, yes. And we look like 50, well, now 60 year old Barbies too as well. So, But my Barbie absolutely saved my life in so many ways. I knew I had to get healthy, so I had a friend that helped me do that. And I'm physically in much better shape today.

Ken: 26:55

But most importantly, my wife and I got serious really quick. And because both of us were coming out of bad relationships and bad marriages, we had this giant checklist that we went I mean, everything. Big stuff to Ken leaves the kitchen cupboards open all the time. Mean, we spent weeks talking about all these things. But we got close really fast.

Ken: 27:16

And my wife drew a line in the sand and said, listen, I know you believe in God, but that's not enough to be saved.

Kayla: 27:23

Wow.

Ken: 27:24

And I need to know that you are going to pursue this. You're going to let God pursue you Mhmm. Because I can't be involved with somebody that isn't going to be an eternity with me. And if you can't tell me that you're going to do that, we need to end this today. Wow.

Ken: 27:43

Right? Right. And so we went to a nondenominational church where I had never been to in the Minneapolis area, sat down. And when the music started and the worship music started, I'm affected by music, never really paid any attention to worship music, I had tears running down my eyes halfway It was just I was amazed how much of an effect that it had. And then a pastor sort of adopted me and helped me along the way, and I was dunked, finally.

Ken: 28:16

And so really, I say that I was truly saved sometime between age 55 and 56. Yeah. And went to baptism at that time, and that pastor baptized me. And it was an absolutely amazing moment.

Kayla: 28:32

That was cool.

Ken: 28:33

And then I'm trying to learn as much as I possibly can. Moved to South Carolina in 2019, my wife, Barbara, and I. This was the first church we went to, renovation church. Knew it was our place immediately.

Kayla: 28:44

That's awesome.

Ken: 28:45

I needed to get involved. And back to the original story, here I am. Yeah. If literally, if you go back and you look, if you would have said at age 53 where I was in my life

Kayla: 28:57

Yeah.

Ken: 28:57

And somebody could see the future and said, by the way, Ken, you're going to bike tour, which is a hobby that I have. You're going to ride your bike tour all over the country, hundreds of miles. Oh, and by the way, you're going to be on a church staff or a nondenominational church in I South would have went, Wait, what? Yeah. See, God works.

Kayla: 29:16

He sure does. And it's so cool to, you know, listen to your story and just kind of how it all comes back to this was all in God's plan. You know? Even with the bad that happened in it, God still is such a good God, and he is the deliverer Right.

Ken: 29:32

And that

Kayla: 29:33

he was able to deliver you from that. And then you found your Barbie Right. Which is, you know, super cute.

Ken: 29:38

Right.

Kayla: 29:39

But like you said, she saved your life.

Ken: 29:41

Right. Can I say two things about forgiveness?

Kayla: 29:44

Yeah.

Ken: 29:45

My ex wife, my first wife, my Catholic wife, and my children's mother, she was very, very sick and had lots of different things. And the prescription drugs gave her a lot of problems. And we lost her I guess it's been six years now. Because of Barbara and because of my faith, I was able to forgive her

Kayla: 30:08

for her

Ken: 30:08

part in all of that, which was really powerful. And then also, my second ex, who I lived with, we were also able to forgive each other and actually have sort of a quasi friendship because I still keep in touch with her children.

Kayla: 30:24

Right.

Ken: 30:25

But both of us, and like I said, she was saved too as well. Yeah. And that sits so much better on my heart as well.

Kayla: 30:33

Yeah, and it's kind of cool how forgiveness is part of probably everyone's story and how it's so easy to hold on so tight to either our way of thinking, you know, before we come and own our faith, or I was hurt, you know, a lot of times we play the victim and I how can I forgive that person? They wronged me so much. But God I mean, is so cheesy. Again, I teach children all the time. But, you know, God forgave us first, and so that is why he commands us to forgive.

Kayla: 31:05

And even the disciples, I think they were a little sassy sometimes, and they're like, Well, how many times do you need to forgive? And He just completely shot them down. Right. And He was like, 70 times seven. Right.

Kayla: 31:16

And so that's kind of a fun thing. Yeah. I mean, I've had church hurt from, you know, different churches. I'm not gonna air the dirty laundry, but forgiveness is a process. And sometimes it takes a while, and I think that's okay.

Kayla: 31:30

I think kind of God gives us the grace to be able to work through it, to almost deconstruct the events that happened, how God used them. Because like I said earlier, He is the deliverer.

Ken: 31:44

Right.

Kayla: 31:44

And so He can deliver us through that. And I think He uses maybe some of our struggles with, you know, forgiveness in particular to really teach us an important lesson.

Ken: 31:55

Right. Right. And I think it's important you have your testimony and the parts that if people are listening that can relate to. And and that's God's way of helping them, I'm assuming. Also, my testimony, you know?

Ken: 32:13

Yeah. And and that's that's the power, I believe, of testimonies too Yeah. As well, and and people's faith stories. I will say this one thing. Hardest part about my story, but also the hope.

Ken: 32:27

The hardest part is neither of my kids are saved, and I take a lot of responsibility for that. Yeah. And so that's really, really hard. The hope part of it is, I mean, we've spent fifteen minutes apiece telling our testimonies, but both of us during those long times had so many different things that we could have talked about where God was working at that time that we can look back on and see now. So the hope for me is that I know that God is working.

Ken: 32:56

And I was saved at 56 years old. My kids are still in their 30s. There's still time. There's still time, and I pray. And hopefully, people can shine light in order for them to take those steps.

Ken: 33:11

But, you know, that's really hard

Kayla: 33:13

It is.

Ken: 33:13

For me.

Kayla: 33:14

And I mean, I think that's for everyone. And I think in the next maybe few episodes, we'll kind of dig in deeper about that. You know, we talked about some of our prayer struggle or things that we needed prayer for this past weekend staff meeting, there was a lot of us with close, close family members that aren't saved.

Ken: 33:32

Right.

Kayla: 33:32

And that is on a church staff. And that kind of blew me away a little bit because I always think, Oh, I'm the anomaly.

Ken: 33:38

Right. Right. Exactly.

Kayla: 33:40

And so that It's kind of interesting to kind of dig deep in that and that it's Yep. You know, kind of obviously all in God's plan and His timing, but just kind of what our role is in that, you know? Right.

Ken: 33:54

Well, I think we did it. Yeah. We just did a podcast together, didn't This

Kayla: 33:56

is great.

Ken: 33:57

Yep. Like I said, again, our goal is to have guests in that can share these different stories and faith journeys and and testimonies. We appreciate people out there listening, and and hopefully that that this was helpful for somebody out there.

Kayla: 34:13

Yeah. We appreciate you all, and we will see you next time.

Ken: 34:17

Alright. Sounds great. Thank you. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed the conversation, be sure to subscribe so you never miss an update, and share this podcast with someone who might be encouraged by it.

Ken: 34:29

Wanna know more about Renovation Church and the ministry that God is doing within our churches? Visit the renovation.church to learn more. Until next time, stay encouraged, and let's keep pursuing Jesus in every part of our lives.